fbpx
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Welcome to the XSharp forum!

Tell us and our members who you are, what you like and why you became a member of this site.
We welcome all new members and hope to see you around a lot!
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8992

  Sherlock's Avatar Topic Author Sherlock Offline Posts: 9
Hi.. many I know many of you from Clipper, VO, Vulcan or CULE. Met t many CA events great memories and travels.
It just proves you cannot stand still as your favourite products and environment and devices will continue to change.
Competition now from younger players, qualified professional training, Cloud, open-source major major impact.

Soon to embark on the .NET learning curve and seemed to have joined xSharp at great time in its great leap forward. Hope to contribute along the way. Ales Suchac works for me strong .NET , C# and C++ and VO developer. He developed for us a Native Postgres Dataserver system which allowed us to port from DBF/FPT to SQL. This written around the "libpg.dll".. it is not ODBC which I found not up to scratch.
All the code will be donated to the xSharp projects.

So Hi and the journey begins.
Phil McGuinness

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8993

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Phil,
Welcome and thank you for announcement!
Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8994

  FoxProMatt_MattSlay's Avatar FoxProMatt_MattSlay Offline Posts: 149
Hi Sherlock - Welcome to X#. I'm new here myself (2 months or so). I'm from a Visual FoxPro and C#/Sql Server background. I look forward to being on this journey with with you, and hopefully we can all contribute make X# the best it can be!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8995

  Terry's Avatar Terry Offline Posts: 128
Hi Phil

> It just proves you cannot stand still as your favourite products and environment and devices will continue to change.

Yes - but the way programs work does not change and the way a digital computer works means they never will.

Apart from Vulcan, which I skirted around, I have the same sort of background (now largely forgotton).

Having said that, for some long time, whilst witnessing the ever greater complexities and capabilities of program development or "coding", I have tried to think how the "learning curve" could be eased.

I have come to the conclusion that this can best be done by looking at things from a "human, real-world perspective", and have outlined this in a post on Chit-Chat made a few months ago entitled "Dot Net from the Ground Up".

It is not finished - many other things have taken priority. But the general gist will, I hope, resonate with a few readers. And more importantly help some.

Good to make contact again.

All the best

Terry

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8996

  rjpajaron's Avatar rjpajaron Offline Posts: 191
Hey Phil,

I am not so expecting this. I look forward seeing your PostgreSQL Dataserver lib.
I am about to start my own DBF lib that will work with PostgreSQL with Devart dotConnect for PostgreSQL. I already have a bulk data conversion tool from DBF to PostgreSQL using a pgLoader.

Regards,

Rene
--

Rene Pajaron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8997

  Sherlock's Avatar Topic Author Sherlock Offline Posts: 9
Rene.. I think I will get Ales Suchac [ Mr Postgres ] to give the code to Mr Data.. first.
Let us see as a community how we should document and proceed with this.

My interest originally was to get my internal systems which had massive memo databases and running slow on a Peer to peer network to SQL backend. So code that looked VO, Fieldgets and Fieldputs was working one day DBF the next day PGSQL and was very readable to a VOer.

There are like 5 datatypes in DBF [ D,L,C,N,C,M,O ]
Postgres is like 60+ datatypes it was a lot of work to support the full potential of the native DLL.

It is done and it works and it is very fast. The change to uses was 20 times speed increase.
So I will ask Ales to document what he can and say some samples you can identify with.

Let Robert look it and I would like the community to give the feedback to develop as an open source project.
We will keep working on it.. bugs extra features and he is very good with SQL and VO lets hope XSHARP.

I am sure VO DBF developers to PG SQL this is a good option.

Phil
Phil McGuinness

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Sherlock.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8998

  rjpajaron's Avatar rjpajaron Offline Posts: 191
Looking forward to this one. I also hope, .NET Core 3 support is also being considered on X# new RDD.

Now that .NET 5 will merge 3 .NET frameworks by 2020, exciting years ahead.

Just got overloaded with so much good news in BUILD 2019 where Ginny basically following with UWP/WPF/WinForms elevations to full status as part of Windows UI Framework which soon include "XAML Desktop".

and I have yet to get get started. Got stuck with good old VO.
--

Rene Pajaron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #8999

  robert's Avatar robert Offline Posts: 1048
We are using "normal" .Net classes in the all the new code in the runtime, including the RDD system. So it should work with .Net Core as well. Of course the VO GUI, VO SQL layer, and Internet classes are based on Win32 and will not work on .Net Core 3
The compiler can already do .Net Core. The only real problem is the VS integration , in particular the new project file format.

Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9000

  rjpajaron's Avatar rjpajaron Offline Posts: 191
Hi Robert,

This is great. I am planning to new X# RDD to work with my dotConnect thing working on .NET Core 3 to make my data lib works faster. Which I hope.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Rene
--

Rene Pajaron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9001

  Sherlock's Avatar Topic Author Sherlock Offline Posts: 9
Terry

snip[ but the way programs work does not change and the way a digital computer works means they never will. ]

I have to disagree so much rechanges that require difference approaches and different types of developers.
It just not business logic and pick menu click a button world. Technically code on an off stack hard changes.
My business is divided into two types of developers,, web and say desktop. The desktop on premises is a hard sell now even if the product is mature and working. The Y generation want something different and they are getting it. At stage is was 90/10 desktop now it is 5/95 cloud and losing clients I have had for over 20 and no complaints or service or price. Cloud or nothing. They will not listen,, the people looking will not listen.. the IT person does not help.. it is doomed market in some areas. But cloud wow absolutely flat out and 2 acquisitions in last 2 years and looking for more where it is 1 or 2 web developers.

Build systems for Desktop and cloud very different approach. Code on process works the same for sure but the nature of user interaction the devices the mobile nature the concept of dashboards, automated services and not coming to office is big.
I have desktop guys fighting the trend so hard. Two of may largest competitors about 2 years ago removed the desktop teams and 1 has former as sub contractor for emergency work but the teams are totally different personnel.

When I went to early VO from Clipper sessions then it was apparent 80% would not make the change to event drive systems and that is what happened and I think 80% will never make the true Cloud move.

We migrated a large VO system to later Desktop system and now being ported to cloud. Total different language, look feel, reporting, hopefully rescue some business logic, different developers and interesting the speed to get that port happening. Very fast. Look becomes what dashboards user permissions allow rather than menu with buttons missing or greyed out. What dashboard for your phone verse you desktop?

Phil
Phil McGuinness

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9002

  Terry's Avatar Terry Offline Posts: 128
Phil
I do not disagree with any of the points you make. But none of that, to my mind, conflicts with the basic statement “the way programs work (on a digital platform)” does not change. It does not change whether the platform is pc, tablet, or whatever. They are all digital platforms which our programs control. And, yes we need to take different approaches to how we develop and effect that control (our programs).

(Just in case you’re wondering OK so what? I’ll get to it, so hang on)

The fact is that the electronic operation underlying it all (including shuttling backwards and forwards to the cloud) must and does obey the basic natural laws of physics that we see in the real world. These laws determine and limit what we, ourselves can do, and in particular how quickly we can do things.
Time is the essential factor to get to grips with. Digital electronics, can these days operate at phenomenal speed. Far, far greater than the speed at which we ourselves can do things – timespans measured in nano-seconds. But even this speed is slow when compared to the speed of light.

I have explained some of this in greater detail in the referenced post.

The point here is that VO before it and now the way managed code is implemented allows us to conceptually forget all about memory management. Indeed, forget all about timing constraints – none of these take effect until our programs actually run. Understanding becomes easier
.
So where is this pointing as far as program development in a .NET based language is concerned?

To my mind it points to greater emphasis being placed on optimal use of the language syntax as it develops. By so doing, more and more coding constructs will be able to be translated to the IL Assembler directly by the language compiler, meaning that errors can be detected at compile time rather that jumping out as exceptions when the code is run.

I hope this makes some sense.
Terry

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9003

  NickFriend's Avatar NickFriend Offline Posts: 205
Hi Phil,

Long time no see or hear.... nice to see you around here!

Re. web vs desktop I actually think you can get to a happy medium. I'm fighting a constant rearguard action against web apps here, basically because I'm a fossil and I think the user interface experience in a web app vs a desktop is absolutely crap (I'm going to get a heap of flak for that!).

So we replaced our old vertical market VO application with an N-tier version, whereby there's a client desktop application which communicates with a remote server app that actually handles the data. This gives us the best of both worlds, the quality of UI experience of a desktop (we use WPF) but the global reach of a web app. Only downside obviously is the need to install some software on the client machines.

Using interfaces to define the data service calls also means that we can easily swap out the data access layer and make the same software run on a single machine, so we can even sell to small customers who just want our software on their laptop for instance, which our competitors can't do.

So I'd keep an open mind about desktop.... we've all seen IT fads going round and round over time.

Nick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9005

  Sherlock's Avatar Topic Author Sherlock Offline Posts: 9
Nick / all

Happy medium.. sure there is a transition in place say ONpremises, Hybrid and cloud. We have a lot of hybrid services now and for say 12+ years and more and more we move system to the cloud. xSHARP will be a good project to move another large system that way. Has anybody with xSharp then used the code set in MONO under Linux. We have built a few systems that way, C# . NET and into Mono, Linux in Amazon, Would like to do same with xSHARP. Just runs with less resources and cost to run.

The killer for us as Onpremises hardware needs a say $600o to $12000 upgrade they look for cloud to not spend the money and cost us some very long term clients. The calls for new business mention server local or VM and costs the sale is dead most times.
Phil McGuinness

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9007

  robert's Avatar robert Offline Posts: 1048
Phil,
I am not sure if anyone uses X# in production on Mono, but a few years ago Fabrice already demonstrated an X# winforms app on Mono on a Raspberry PI connecting to a MySql database on his laptop. It worked better than we expected.

Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9008

  rjpajaron's Avatar rjpajaron Offline Posts: 191
Hi Robert,

Why stop there. Mono is the basis of .NET WebAssembly (wasm) that are running on Blazor which currently on preview status, soon to be part of .NET Core 3 by September. My web dev right now is experimenting on it.

Cant wait trying X# assembly called by C# on Blazor. Just a thought....

Regards,

Rene
--

Rene Pajaron

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 1 week ago #9009

  Sherlock's Avatar Topic Author Sherlock Offline Posts: 9
Robert

We will give it a try.. when we are at that stage.
I was impressed that without code change it works.
These were services that generate web interface.
Under Linux less rebooting more reliable, servicing etc.
Before the Windows / Linux flame we do both we can speak from experience.

Phil
Phil McGuinness

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

New xSharpees.. or is X#phobes 2 months 6 days ago #9018

  lumberjack's Avatar lumberjack Offline Posts: 494

Sherlock wrote: Hi.. many I know many of you from Clipper, VO, Vulcan or CULE. Met t many CA events great memories and travels.
So Hi and the journey begins.

Hi Phil,
Great to see you back with us, as was always the case, we all here to help and assist each other as we know from the Clipper/VO days and hopefully soon also the XBase++ and VFP guys.

Welcome back and happy X#ing.
______________________
Johan Nel
George, South Africa

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1