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Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#

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1 year 4 months ago #1 by Phil Hepburn
Hi friends and colleagues,

I have been following and reading, all the new posts over the last few weeks, even though I have said nothing ;-0) Yep! - silent lurker !!

It seems to me that we need a new topic section in 'Pearls' to allow any VS user to post their tips, tricks, and general 'good' advice. We can even ask moaners and groans (and negative thinkers) to just 'keep out' !? Lets be positive about Visual Studio.

I am aware that there are quite a few VS 'happy' users who have lots of experience and also helpful advice to offer the rest of us guys.

Finally, on this new idea, we all need to realise that XIDE and VS both have very useful roles to play (side by side), and that there is no place to promote one in place of the other - or to put it another way, to 'slog off' one for the other - lets be grown up sensible professionals about this. We need to have both available to the X# community.

Some of us guys just have to use VS for a number of different professional reasons, period. I had to bite that bullet years back. These days, I just accept that I am one of these guys, even though in the past I had 2.5 happy and productive years with VIDE. It made a .NET man of me. Thanks Chris.

Shall we call the new Pearls section "making VS work for us!" - or have you a better name perhaps ?

Best Regards,
Phil.
Wales, UK.

P.S. and still spending a lot of time wood working, this will be cut down in the next month or so.

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1 year 4 months ago #2 by Karl Faller
Phil,
With due respect, but pls let your thought-police out here.
If my hammer hit's only every second nail, because it it crooked, i'll say so, period.

If MS wants VS to be a multi-purpouse "shell", rolling out updates with breaking changes without early and very clearly anouncing these, this is sh... and there's really no reason not to say so...
That has nothing to do if i "have to" use this tool or not nor for which reason i do so - or not.

Karl

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1 year 4 months ago #3 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Phil,

sincerely, I don't know if this makes any sense.

I have now looked at the Pearls section: nearly all threads are started by you, a few only by me, and a few by Frank and by Nick.
Therefore I don't think people will use a new VS pearls section (you excluded, of course).

Since I use XIDE, I have tried to post some tips about it, and published some articles about in my own blog, but I'm not sure this makes much sense, as everyone seems to have different needs.

And people seems to be to busy to post success stories - you will find more complaints. This seems to be human...

Wolfgang

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1 year 4 months ago #4 by Phil Hepburn
Sorry Wolfgang,

The VS tips section was to be included in the existing Pearls section. Nothing special about it - just another Pearls entry for those you read and visit.

Seems like you and Karl are suggesting to not bother !?

Regards,
Phil.

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1 year 4 months ago #5 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Phil,

yes, I don't think it makes much sense. But that is my personal opinion, and of course the decision is not mine. If the development decides to add this section, of course we have to accept it or to leave this forum.

Wolfgang

P.S. I agree with Karl that also negative feedbacks need to have their place. For sure a problem should not be posted to the Pearls section as it would be the wrong place.

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1 year 4 months ago #6 by Chris Pyrgas
Hi Wolfgang,

Well I wouldn't consider most posts as complaints, I think it's only natural when people deal with a new thing like x#, very often they will face problems so they ask in the forum for help, as expected.

For success stories, we have the Examples section of the website and I am sure the entries there will increase soon..

Chris

XSharp Development Team
chris(at)xsharp.eu

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1 year 4 months ago #7 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Chris,

yes, IMHO a support forum of course has messages about things that don't work - this is the sense of a support forum.

Rgearding the Examples, I'm not so optimistic.... I've put in production a few more X#/WPF applications the last weeks (one checks regularly the status of some webpages and writes the result in a SQLite database, another one uses the AdWords API to check the budgets of the ads, and the Adwords Statistics tool is finished, but not yet in production), but they are too small to be put in the Examples section.

Wolfgang

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1 year 4 months ago #8 by Chris Pyrgas
Hi Wolfgang,

Well, I am optimistic about this :-)
I've been in touch with many people by private email, helping out with porting VO apps to X#. Some apps are progressing very well, others are taking more time, but I'm pretty sure from what I hear by many that we will soon have more X# showcases to display (if people agree to demonstrate their apps in our website of course).

Chris

XSharp Development Team
chris(at)xsharp.eu

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1 year 4 months ago #9 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Chris,

Well, I am optimistic about this :-)


Since I'm working only on my projects without many contacts, I don't know about this, and look forward to see more applications, and maybe some sample code.

Wolfgang

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1 year 4 months ago #10 by Phil Hepburn
Yep Wolfgang,

Nothing wrong with negative feedback, especially if it is in the right place.

In Vulcan 'Pearls' (that I did for years) it was seen by users as a "Learning Zone", and therefore not the most appropriate place for negative postings.

When this was pointed out, guys like our friend Dick kindly moved there feedback items to other threads. I was hoping for something similar here in C#.

I am NOT asking for a new 'section' - just that a topic on VS in Pearls could be used by all to leave positive feedback, tips, tricks and suggestions / explanations etc., etc.


Best regards,
Phil.

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1 year 4 months ago #11 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Phil,

I'm very sorry if I have written something that is not ok or has damaged the positive feelings of someone. I'll try to omit this in future.

Wolfgang

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1 year 4 months ago #12 by Phil Hepburn
Sorry guys and TEAM - for C# read X# ;-0)

The poor level of my postings is probably due to too much wood working ;-0)

Cheers,
Phil.

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1 year 4 months ago #13 by Dick
Hello Phil,

It seems to me that we need a new topic section in 'Pearls' to allow any VS user to post their tips, tricks, and general 'good' advice. We can even ask moaners and groans (and negative thinkers) to just 'keep out' !? Lets be positive about Visual Studio.


It seems this forum is going to to be "Brianized". Robert locking a discussion, Phil asking "moaners and groaners and negative thinkers" to keep out unless they praise VS and it's good deeds! I remember a newsgroup where it's owner, let's call him "Brian", spent more time keeping people out, let's call them "the Geoffs", than in developing his product, let's call it "Vulcan". Well, the "Geoffs" who kept writing how poorly "Vulcan" was managed, left the NG and also all other newsgroups and only years later all the other users discovered he was right.

Personally I learned from people who respond on critical posts by confirming what is true (and writing how they deal with it) and showing what isn't (and why). When I am going to code in X#, using WPF, I have little other choice than to use VS. I would really love to be positive about it, so Phil, please keep on writing what we can use that works better than in VO. So far I have found more that works worse, hence my "negative thinking" but who knows your Pearls will eventually change that. I am looking forward to it.


Dick

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1 year 4 months ago #14 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Hi Dick,

I had decided to not answer anymore in this thread, but I think you are simply over-reacting.
This is a product forum, and therefore I understand that Robert has locked a thread. And there is nobody that was locked out.
And it is simple not true to compare the actual team with GrafX: the X# development is programmers driven, and Robert works very hard on the product itself, instead of limiting itself to "drive the company" or "manage the product".

I agree wit you that also negative statements should have their place ( and after this discussion I had decided to not post anymore in this forum to not damage the project since I don't like VS too, but prefer XIDE ), but I think that to many complaints are as bad as to many praisings.

Wolfgang

P.S. this will be my last contribution to this thread

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1 year 4 months ago #15 by Robert van der Hulst
Replied by Robert van der Hulst on topic Being positive in our approach to using VS to code X#
Dick,

The thread was locked because it was derailing. When people start posting messages only to get the last word in a thread, then it is time to stop the thread.

This is a public forum. So far we have not had to remove any messages or block any users. We hope it can stay that way.

However we kindly ask everybody to follow the "normal" rules of proper communication in public. We have formulared some of these rules on the page https://www.xsharp.info/faq/39-xsharp-news-server-rules .

Robert
Robert

XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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1 year 4 months ago #16 by Nick Friend

Robert van der Hulst wrote: Dick,
The thread was locked because it was derailing. When people start posting messages only to get the last word in a thread, then it is time to stop the thread.

Sorry Robert, that was me. I was only joking with Chris, and certainly wouldn't do it as a matter of course. Doesn't hurt for you to keep everyone on track though (remember the "good old" Joel/Geoff threads from Google!)

Nick

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1 year 4 months ago #17 by Chris Pyrgas
Nick,

That was also me...I was trying to derail that thread on purpose :-)

Chris

XSharp Development Team
chris(at)xsharp.eu

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1 year 4 months ago #18 by Phil Hepburn
Hi Robert, Team and all guys,

If you read my previous comments carefully, I never tried to stop 'negative' postings, there are definite needs for these - BUT - in the right place in the forum.

If we keep Pearls as a 'learning zone' for guys to read and discover new things etc., and the post tell colleagues how to get good and real results, it is much better for others to post their negative comments elsewhere in the forum.

It sometimes appears as if there are 'trigger' words which get some guys to just pour out tirades of anti Microsoft (or other) comments. Not always very helpful to other readers

On a personal level I always agonise (and think hard) over some of my technical posts, hoping that I am correct in what I say and that I have done enough testing before I commit my thoughts for others to read. I don't wish to mislead anyone.

I remember one post in the past, when I was trying to pass on my positive experiences and succeses with WPF and the VS graphical editor for WPF - just to have a well known colleagues add a long post to mine, telling all that the editor in VS for WPF was the worst ever and that it just did not work, etc., etc.. This was one example where I feel Forum Friends were totally misled by the post second post. It does work, but it has to be used correctly, and with understanding, and its probably too complex a topic to publish short posts about.

Many of the issues we all discuss are very complex, and a 'quick fire' damning or praising comment is not really possible or helpful. We don't live in the good old simple past any more ;-0(

In fact I am to make my own MAON post in the morning, yes, me moan - about VS 2017 and its installer, but I will not place it in 'Pearls' and I will at least offer my suggestions on how to get around the problems I face on my office PC. I do now have the new X# compiler working with VS 2017 on my PC ... more on that in my 'Moan Post' in the morning.

I hope more of you guys understand what I am trying to suggest in 'structuring' where we place our comments in the "Forum Folder" general structure. We all get frustrated when complex stuff does not work, me included, BUT, I have a personal policy that seems to work - NEVER post comments while feeling frustrated, go and have a coffee, or a beer, or even as Nick does go and walk the dog. And don't post after drinking alcohol either.

Kindest regards to everyone, the moaners and the praisers ;-0)

Cheers,
Phil.
Wales, UK.

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