fbpx
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: xSharp RDD Dataset

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4740

  Jamal's Avatar Topic Author Jamal Offline Posts: 130
In the RoadMap which listed the xSharp RDD and last bullet has:

What do you need ?

Aside from ADS, I am just wondering if will be possible to create something like ApolloDB to write to SQL-92 query syntax directly access data via an ADO.NET Data Provider.

Such a feature will enable us to return DataSet objects that can be bound to native Grid in WinForm/WPF or to third components data grids like Telerik, DevExpress and so on.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4741

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Jamal,

that would be a project on its own.... it would be great to have something like this, but first the X# team needs time to finish the runtime and the RDD itself.

Of course I like this idea because it would really make a bridge between our DBF data and the SQL world!

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4742

  robert's Avatar robert Offline Posts: 1048
Jamal,
That is a great ide. But we could use some more information. What is it exactly that you would expect from this:

- SQL syntax to query DBF data (Advantage RDD allows that already)
- a DotNet provider linked to RDD workareas that uses filters and scoping like normal DBFs
- Should there be an automatic write back of changes to the DBFs?
- And should that to happen immediately (like normal DBFs) or should the changes be cached in the in memory dataset and its data tables and then written after all the changes are committed.

Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4743

  Jamal's Avatar Topic Author Jamal Offline Posts: 130
Hi Robert,

>> SQL syntax to query DBF data (Advantage RDD allows that already) <<

SAP lately based on what I hear has very bad support <g> and may too expensive.

>> a DotNet provider linked to RDD workareas that uses filters and scoping like normal DBFs <<

Yes, but using SQL commands.

>> Should there be an automatic write back of changes to the DBFs? <<
- And should that to happen immediately (like normal DBFs) or should the changes be cached in the in memory dataset and its data tables and then written after all the changes are committed. <<

That would depend on the supporting grid component or if the data is shown in data-aware form or not.

Maybe you guys look at apollodb.com or talk to them to see how their technology could be utilized in xSharp.

Jamal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4744

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Robert,

and I think that this could be a commercial component.

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4745

  robert's Avatar robert Offline Posts: 1048
Jamal,

We will have a look at ApolloDB. From what I read their product already supports Ado.NET and VS 2017. So nothing stops you from using Apollo with X# already and you should be able to use it with both Windows Forms as well as WPF.

I am not sure what you are asking for exactly. Is ApolloDB not sufficient for what you need or are you asking us to create an ApolloDB "clone" ?

Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4746

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Robert,

I've given ApolloDB a short look, and it looks interesting.

Since the developers had made the Six driver that was used in Clipper 5.2 by CA, they should have enough experience with DBFs, but as I remember the DBFFPT from Clipper 5.3 (Comix) was stabler than the Six version of 5.2 - but things could have changed.

IMHO it makes not much sense to rebuild functionality already present in another product, but it would be interesting to join forces, so maybe a common RDD could be built.

The ApolloDB product seems to be in development - last update was in January, but I was not able to find any statement from a current ApolloDB user.

Maybe they are interested in any sort of collaboration to open up a new market for their server.

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4747

  Jamal's Avatar Topic Author Jamal Offline Posts: 130
Hi Robert,

The ApolloDB is not 100% compatible with the VO DBFCDX RDD specifications since VO added long field lengths above 1023 characters, see: www.apollodb.com/apollo_engine.asp#t4

In VO I can specify 3000 characters field with no issues (no memo field needed).

So, maybe a clone component would be ideal.

Jamal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4753

  ic2's Avatar ic2 Offline Posts: 521
It would be very interesting. ADS is as dead as VO, meaning we can still use it but there is no support from SAP nor a chance that we will spend clients money on it. SAP even didn't show the courtesy to keep the forum alive, after first shutting down the original and helpful forum.

Basically if you could replace ADS (and charge for that) there may be a potential source of income. But that won't be an overnight job I am afraid. For the short term you should take a look at ADS Data Architect. I can just use standard ADS to both query and fill DBF files. We use it for exchanging data via WPF; everything we change in any designated database we automatically create a query for which is appended to a MySQL database using WPF. Any user set up to receive these queries read them, again using WPF, and ADS (even ADS local server) allows us to execute the queries 1:1 onto the DBF files of the receiver, something which would be a lot more difficult to realize without ADS.

It works actually quite flawless.

Dick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 2 months ago #4758

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Dick,

ADS is not dead as VO: SAP is alive and probably will not close the next years, and they continue to sell it, and if some new OS requires it, they will do the needed changes. Even the support is alive - not very well, and for sure not fast, but there is someone that supports it.

I don't know what the ApolloDB people is doing and how many licences they sell, but they have a working product, and I hope they are so smart to collaborate in some manner. It is time to join forces, and why redevelop something from scratch if there is something that is already done.

Robert and his group has a lot to do, and it will take some time until they will have the time to dedicate it to this project. I would like such a product, and I'm sure our "gang of four" is be able to develop a fantastic thing, but their time is limited and a lot is to do for X#.

Maybe Robert can find an agreement with the ApolloDB people for a native X# RDD, and a SQL engine that is to pay (after all, we all need to live from our work).

The limits that the engine already has like the maximum string field should be easy to change ( but I have to say that I have no table with such a large field ).

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4767

  g.bunzel@domonet.de's Avatar g.bunzel@domonet.de Offline Posts: 10
Hi Robert,

...as Wolfgang said: ADS is not dead.

ADS-Support for X# is VERY importent for us! ALL of our big clients are working with ADS.
To transport our VO-Apps we need a RDD for ADS. Then our next step will be switch to SQL - but that will go on step by step.
There is a Vulcan-RDD for ADS - so it should be possible, to transport that to X#.

Best regards

Gerhard Bunzel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4768

  robert's Avatar robert Offline Posts: 1048
Gerhard,

Gerhard Bunzel wrote: Hi Robert,

...as Wolfgang said: ADS is not dead.

ADS-Support for X# is VERY importent for us! ALL of our big clients are working with ADS.
To transport our VO-Apps we need a RDD for ADS. Then our next step will be switch to SQL - but that will go on step by step.
There is a Vulcan-RDD for ADS - so it should be possible, to transport that to X#.


The Vulcan RDD is not written in VO/Vulcan but in C#. Its source is not available and copyright SAP so we can't transport that.
However we realize that Advantage is VERY important. That is why the Advantage RDD is the first RDD on our list. An advantage (pun intended) of this approach is that ADS supports DBF/DBT/NTX and DBF/FPT/CDX out of the box. The underlying database engine is tested and working. So "all" we have to do is to implement the RDD layer.

Robert
XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4769

  ic2's Avatar ic2 Offline Posts: 521

as Wolfgang said: ADS is not dead.


It is certainly important that X# supports ADS, but just as with VO, it's to keep things working. Clients of ours, or at least some of them, may use VO applications for years to come But that doesn't mean I will ever try to contact Grafx to buy additional VO licenses. No Grafx based forum exists and if you mail the owner of Grafx you will not get a reply.

Same situation is for ADS. With a lot of effort you *may* find someone replying to your question. The last time I tried because of a client interested in ADS server we had to find an alternative solution because I was not able to get a reply from anyone at SAP during weeks.

I call that 'the product is dead'. We only have to wait for a childish web page "SAP ADS is closing down business" and the analogy with Grafx is 100% equal.

Dick

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4771

  g.bunzel@domonet.de's Avatar g.bunzel@domonet.de Offline Posts: 10
Hi Robert,

thanks for your fast answer.

However we realize that Advantage is VERY important. That is why the Advantage RDD is the first RDD on our list.

That are very good news for use!


Best regards

Gerhard Bunzel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4847

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
I have done some tests with the ApolloDB engine, and I like the idea of an SQL layer over DBFs very, very much.

I had tought that implementing something similar in X# would be not that important because the ApolloDB product exists, and has also a dedicated server (unfortunately not as Windows service) with a very interesting license.

But I had to rethink about this:
- first I have not been able to contact the ApolloDB people (or better, they don't answered)
- second I have not been able to buy a ApolloDB license as strangely my creditcards were declined
- third the SQL layer seems to have some shortcomings. One of the most important IMHO is that you cannot use a "select * from" when the table contains a memo field, and you cannot use memofields directly in a select.

I don't know if someone other was able to reach them - it would be really a pity for them and for us to loose the opportunity of a collaboration between X# and ApolloDB.

For some small customers (speaking about 1-3 PCs without any dedicated server) DBFs IMHO seem to be still the best database solution.

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4848

  Jamal's Avatar Topic Author Jamal Offline Posts: 130
Hi Wolfgang,

I have a license for version 7 which I bought several years ago, but did not fully utilize it due to some issues that arose later on due to CDX files and field length limitations; so I put it on the shelf. The only difference is that the current version supports 32 and 64 bit and late MS Framework 4.7.

My first post was precisely to see xSharp can my read my VO tables with existing CDX files as is, i.e. full compatibility and the SQL server syntax and server capability.
Did you try This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ?

Jamal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4849

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hi Jamal,

first I tried to write to that address. Then, after a few days of waiting, I resent my message to the same address, and a few days after I tried the web form, and then again the web form when my try to buy failed.
None of these messages has been answered, unfortunately.

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4850

  Jamal's Avatar Topic Author Jamal Offline Posts: 130
That's unfortunate! Maybe it is a side job for them or it is a sign that they will be out of business just like CodeBase.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4851

  FFF's Avatar FFF Offline Posts: 619
All,
just went to the site and tried to get the "Trial". The "Instructions for download" email needed some minutes, and the d/l worked. So at least the processing seems to be working ;)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

xSharp RDD Dataset 1 year 1 month ago #4852

  wriedmann's Avatar wriedmann Offline Posts: 1631
Hello,

yes, the demo download works, and I have done my tests with this version.

And the most recent DLL is from January 2018, so I think there must be some interest...

Wolfgang
Wolfgang Riedmann
Meran, South Tyrol, Italy
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.riedmann.it - docs.xsharp.it

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2