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Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >

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1 year 8 months ago #1 by Phil Hepburn
Hi Robert and the Team (and all),

As you know I have been doing Forum related work with a Virtual Machine and a clean installation of VS 2017 and related software, latest X# as well. Things have gone quite well.

However, I have noticed a couple of things which I feel I should report back to you - one is more of a "show stopper" than the other.

First the lesser problem :- If I add a new folder to my project (in the SE pane) and then decide to delete (remove) it, all seems well and it goes from the SE pane. However, if I then try to add the same (named) folder back again, I get a message from the VS system saying that the folder already exists. Looking with 'File Explorer' it certainly still exists in the project folder on disk.

I know the above situation is a bit odd - BUT - it does look as if Delete does a 'soft' remove but NOT a 'hard' remove. Meaning the solution/project appears not to have it BUT the file system does know about it. I hit this issue yesterday, survived by fiddling!

Secondly, the more difficult to get around problem / issue. Yesterday I was trying to add a 'Click' event to a Button in my WPF form - see below :-



The XAML text editor and the whole of the VS IDE seems to lock up, and I have to use task manager to close VS, and any recent changes are lost. It locks forever it would seem :-



This is a bit of a show stopper for new guys to VS, WPF and X#. I have a way around this BUT ;-0((

I write a comment line in XAML in which I embed the whole new 'Click' text - then copy and paste it into the attributes list for the Button. It does not appear to need the event handler to be there first, before the text 'fiddle', but I feel/think/remember I usually do make the code method before pasting.



In earlier VS integrations this Click event entry did nothing behind the scenes but did not lock, and later ones (integrations) introduced this effect - it appears still to be there.

It would also appear as if the system behind the XAML editing (a parser plus?) is trying to insert .NET code of X# syntax to create a stub for the event handler. And somewhere along the line it is hitting a brick wall.

This is rather critical and crucial for WPF work so it may be good to put it as high up the list of 'to dos' as possible ;-0) MVVM does not do events like this but everything else non-MVVM does.

Thanks for listening,
Phil.
Wales, UK.
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1 year 8 months ago #2 by Chris Pyrgas
Hi Phil,

I can reproduce the problem, thanks a lot for reporting it! I am sure Robert or Fabrice will be able to fix it.

Chris

XSharp Development Team
chris(at)xsharp.eu

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1 year 8 months ago #3 by Robert van der Hulst
Replied by Robert van der Hulst on topic Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >
Phil,

The crash in the XAML editor has been identified and fixed.
W.r.t. deleting folders: there could be more files in a folder than you are seeing in the project inside Solution Explorer (so called "excluded files").
What would you expect: should the folder be deleted if the folder contains files that are not part of the project ?

Robert

XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
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1 year 8 months ago #4 by Phil Hepburn
Hi Chris,

You and the Team are most welcome - I will continue to keep a look out for the odd thing here and there that seems not to be right. I will try and play my small part, as you and the others are doing all the big and hard work ;-0)

I have to say that most stuff seems to work very well indeed - well done Team !!!

Speak soon,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago #5 by Phil Hepburn
Robert,

In my case it was VERY simple, almost trivial. There we no other files at all. How can I call-back an existing Folder into my SE pane ?

I tried Add Existing Item - but that does not allow Folders it would seem.

What does C# do - I will test this out, and maybe the behaviour should be the same !?

Speak later,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago #6 by Robert van der Hulst
Replied by Robert van der Hulst on topic Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >
Phil,

In the project menu there is an item "Show all files".
If you select that then you can include "excluded" files and folder in your project.

Robert

XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
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1 year 8 months ago #7 by Phil Hepburn
Thanks Robert,

In the morning I will investigate this, and a few other related things / stuff. Which will include looking to see what C# does in the same circumstances - just for the knowledge etc..

Cheers,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago #8 by Phil Hepburn
Hi again Robert,

As promised I have done some testing with a C# project in VS 2017 - and - it is as I had assumed, the delete from the Solution Explorer pane does actually remove physically the folder and any files from the hard disk. Like as if we are using File Explorer.

Yes, it does give you a chance to Cancel, but it does NOT leave stuff on disk when it is removed from the SE pane.

I would vote to have our X# behaviour as like that of C# please.

Regards,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago #9 by Karl Faller
Phil,
C# and it's handling is not the holy grail...

So i vote for X# to be smarter:
  • check, if there are "non included" files, is so, ask user, how to proceed.
  • offer comfort: if the answer to "total erase" is no, offer to move these files to a backup location.

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1 year 8 months ago #10 by Robert van der Hulst
Replied by Robert van der Hulst on topic Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >
Karl,

This is what I just implemented:
  • Delete a file to the Windows recycle bin
  • Delete a folder to the Windows recycle bin

So it is never truly 'lost'

Robert

XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #11 by Karl Faller
Robert,
better than C#, but risky, and, sorry, not really comfortable ;)
There are folks who routinely empty their bin...

BTW, how do you think, the "rescue" should work? Re-instate a file to a folder, which possibly does not exist anymore? Or, recreate the folder from bin, but then you have ALL files again in...
Last edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Karl Faller. Reason: Additional info

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1 year 8 months ago #12 by Phil Hepburn
Hi Robert (Karl and others),

Thanks, that seems to fall in line with the operation of the VS environment for other languages in VS 2017.

Karl and others, it is not that we are copying C# or that what it does is the Holy Grail, or the smartest thing around - BUT - that for guys like me who move between projects in the VS IDE shell we need some consistency, so that using VS is as easy as it can be.

At the moment I think there is an inconsistency between single and double clicks of items in the S.E. pane - this becomes hard work when translating manually C# to X#.

However, in the X# compiler 'stuff' - get as smart as you like ;-0) That is different.

Thanks and my 10c worth,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #13 by Karl Faller
AFAIK, here we talked about deleting/removing things, no clicks ;)

And, if R. follows my wish, where's your problem?
Delete a C# folder, all is gone;
Delete a X# folder, and you get asked what to do, IF, and only if it contains detached files which you probably hadn't realised they would be lost...
Last edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Karl Faller. Reason: typo

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1 year 8 months ago #14 by Phil Hepburn
Karl,

Please do remember that many guys coding in VS these days do so with the full use and support of 'Team Explorer' (was Team Foundation Server) and there are GIT options too, and the Cloud.

So VS users should 'Commit' changes to the server on a regular basis, very regular. Any problems and we can then restore the solution to a previous state.

In other words we should use the tools provided and not be so guarded when it comes to basic functionality of 'add and remove' in the SE pane - which should mean just that.

If you are not using 'Team Server' then I recommend it - I was a convert after I lost 3.5 hours of heavy coding back in the old days - I just went for it after that. And these days it is much easier to use the Team Server facility.

I attach a couple of images (just for a flavour) of my developing EF6 solution I am creating for Forum Pearls :-





Here are a couple more for you to get the feeling of what is on offer - my app is small and new so there are only a handful (5 ?) changes so far.





Hope this interests a few,
Phil.
Wales, UK.
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1 year 8 months ago #15 by Karl Faller
Holy sh.. Phil,
i asked for a dialog form with some lines to move some files to another place.
Why are you so damn "guarded" if one wants some simple func without the need to invest the next week to understand it?

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1 year 8 months ago #16 by Phil Hepburn
Karl,

Calm down ;-0)

The point you may have missed is that some guys may have their SE pane contents managed by the built-in tool(s). So we can't have more than one management system changing out SE pane contents.

It just looked to me like we were discussing re-inventing the wheel, again.
We need to thing carefully about what we do, that was my message.
I don't want my VS environment moving files around with dialogs etc.

Enormous thunder storms while I create and write this, so you may not get it, or a lot of water !!!

My 13c worth,
Phil.

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1 year 8 months ago #17 by Karl Faller
Phil,
<sigh>.

a) Nobody asked about another management of the content of the SE pane. I asked for a convenient way to manage possible loss of data.

b) "some guys" might use some internal tools. So what? Because they do, we all have to? Because they do, no other functionality may be added to VS? Why? Because VS breaks then? C'mon.

c) "the environment moves your files" - it shouldn't DELETE files without asking me - and if i deny, an easy option to move them to a place -where I want them to be- may come handy, no?

Thunderstorm didn't stop me reading all of your post, "our's" seems to have lost steam ;)

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1 year 8 months ago #18 by Robert van der Hulst
Replied by Robert van der Hulst on topic Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >
Karl,

When you delete a file or folder in VS you will see a confirmation dialog.
After you select Ok, then the (changed) X# project system will move the selected item to the trash can.

I think that behavior is exactly what you would expect.
And yes, if you empty the trash can then it will be gone "forever".
That is exactly what you would expect as well.

Of course it always helps to have backups or source code control...

Discussion closed for me.

Robert

XSharp Development Team
The Netherlands
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1 year 8 months ago #19 by Karl Faller
Robert,
you wrote:
"...W.r.t. deleting folders: there could be more files in a folder than you are seeing in the project inside Solution Explorer (so called "excluded files").
What would you expect: should the folder be deleted if the folder contains files that are not part of the project ?..."

These "invisible" files started my interest in this thing. If your confirmation dialog let's handle them separated from the "included" parts, all is fine. If not, from the reactions i get, it seems, neither you nor Phil understood my concern.

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1 year 8 months ago #20 by Wolfgang Riedmann
Replied by Wolfgang Riedmann on topic Visual Studio 2017 with Beta 11 - some issues to report >
Hi Karl,

I think, I understand your concerns, but personally I think that when the user decides to delete a folder, it should be really deleted with all contents. Even the Windows Explorer does this.
And I don't think it is not a good idea to keep files in the VS project structure - files that are not visible to Visual Studio itself.

Personally I'm using XIDE, and I have learned to add all files of my project (i.e. all files that are in the project structure) also to the XIDE project.

Of course, coming from the repository based VO, we tend to see things differently than guys that don't know it. But a regular backup keeps you safe... (my XIDE makes an automatic export to another disk every 30 minutes, as also VO AutoExport does).

Wolfgang

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